Saturday nights,
tvN, South Korea,
Starting Saturday 7th December 2013
We’re keeping our fingers crossed for English subtitles. Amazing Youtube user Bumdidlyumptious very kindly subbed the first series and has suggested they will do the second. Don’t expect them immediately, would be my advice. Unfortunately Youtube has taken them down but they might still be possible to view, you can follow on Twitter for latest news. Edit: they’re viewable through links on her Tumblr.
Episode 1 discussion (including links) starts here.
Episode 2 discussion starts here.
Episode 3 discussion starts here.
Episode 4 discussion starts here.
Episode 5 discussion starts here.
Episode 6 discussion starts here.
Episode 7 discussion starts here.
Episode 8 discussion starts here.
Episode 9 discussion starts here.
Episode 10 discussion starts here.
Episode 11 discussion starts here.
Episode 12 discussion starts here.
What is The Genius?
The Genius is a very interesting South Korean cable reality game that pits 13 Korean celebrities against each other in social games of strategy, logic, mental agility and psychological skill. Winning games means winning garnets, the show’s currency, which can be used to make games easier (buying extra hints, for example) or for use to buy favour with other contestants. Losing games means risking elimination in the Death Match. At the end of the series the last player standing gets all their garnets converted into hard cash. It’s heavily influenced by the Japanese Liar Game manga series.
It’s also very stylish, with interesting use of flashbacks and forwards, graphics, and a terrific soundtrack borrowed variously from films and amazing Korean electronic band Idiotape. I wholeheartedly recommend their album.
And if that trailer looked good, you can watch the entire first series subbed. Here’s what we thought of it.
If you’re a regular reader of the Bar it is very likely this is a show that will hold some appeal for you. For the second series I thought it would be fun to have its own page for discussion of the show – quality of challenges, quality of strategy, quality of contestants. There’s likely to be a lot to talk about!
Spoiler Warnings:
If it has been subbed it is fair game. Links to subbed episodes can be found on Bumpdidlyumptious’ Twitter feed. Enter at your own risk!
If you’re watching it from Korea (for example!) we would appreciate limiting discussion to episodes that are viewable with English subtitles.
This episode was great!
Though the main match is really complicated once again, it is so much more interesting than other games played so far! And I am quiet sad, that we are down to one woman today. However the death match was great and I’m already thinking of making or buying (probably making, right now I have nothing to do… If you have any interesting jobs for me, even in the UK, just tell me, I hate doing nothing) laser chess for myself.
Something else that seems great: the next episode! The game should be quiet interesting though I hope Dohee’s ID has not been stolen. If he has lost his ID, it’s his fault and he deserves to be in the death match. Furthermore I like that there might be some fighting over the token of immortality, that would be lovely!
I’m going to refrain from talking about the main episode because I think I FIGURED OUT THE SAFE COMBINATION.
Okay, so earlier in the comment thread I noted that there are names in the games room, and pictures in the main hall. I theorised that the token of immunity would be behind one of those pictures. Clearly this has been proven wrong, with the presence of the safe in the garage. However, the safe still needs a 6-digit combination, which is where the names and pictures come back into play.
(If you want to try and figure out my thought process from here, go do it now!)
Top of the list of names is Albert Einstein. During today’s deathmatch, a certain picture of Mr Einstein was seen quite clearly, which I’ve screencapped here. You may notice something odd about that photo: it’s not this one as the writing has been changed!
If you take that seemingly random binary string and convert it to decimal, you get 102510, which I believe to be the combination.
(also, LASER CHESS! Shame it was a bit breakable really)
Okay, if Jinho already tried that number, how about this….
X => X tells you 102510
102510 is found in binary on the photo of Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein’s name is on the wall in the lounge (?) room, but his name is missing a letter
The letter S has been put in the name Mozart instead
So, the next piece of the puzzle, or the code itself, is behind Mozart’s picture in the lobby?
This will be fun =D
Theres some leak in korean forum that the answer is 205020 which would make ur theory correct since the ‘0’ missing from mozart if added to 102510 in binaries would make it 205020.
Great job spotting the einstein mozart switch. Hope its the correct theory.
I think you might have been the first to call this; if so, kudos, helluva shout.
well X II V X is 102510 but kong already tried it, didnt seem to work.
Huh, I must have missed that. Well, 2 appearances of that number must mean something.
My husband suggests that maybe it did work for Jinho, but he didn’t want to reveal that in front of Doohee!
Turns out its jes 102510 X II V X. -_-. The weird thing then is why didnt jinho get it even though he had the right combinations.
Interesting ep- loved the way Hongchul took advantage of that dropped rule…the main game was complex, but Bumdidlyumptious did a great job with the translations. Deathmatch was a little slow though- both of them played a defensive game and it didn’t help..here’s the BGG entry on the game it was based on
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/91034/khet-2-0
Next week looks fun-looks like they’re playing a version of Pit!
A similar episode to #1, with lots of rules, lots of text and hidden information, and a rather baffling outcome. Why the loser was having all their chips taken away at the end, I have no idea.
And the one player I didn’t want to leave has now gone. Jinho’s return actually seems to be starting to be a negative impact on the series overall – he basically said at the start who he wanted shut of and that’s exactly what happened. Grr.
I think it was to guarantee she’d be last and definitely be in the Deathmatch- if it was someone else you never know who’d they end up picking.
I really enjoyed the main match, hidden roles are always fun (although do think it might have been a bit more interesting if the bonus was a bit less) and I thought it was much easier to follow than the food chain game. I was quite pleased to see a game where everyone played for an individual win.
I thought giant Khet could have been awesome but the comment about the defensive play was right – great build (although I think the laser should have been thicker), a bit boring to watch. I haven’t played it for years so never would have considered the blocking manouvere, but I like the suggestion above that this probably came down to poor starting set-up.
This feels like the second time that Sangmin was able to win a Main Match without really trying, due to the rules of the role he was given.
In the Food Chain game, he just had to make sure a certain number of animals died, which seemed to happen without much influence from him. In this game, all he had to do was use his Wild twice to at least stay out of danger.
Hrm. Not really convinced by this episode, but have thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the series so far (unlike some, it seems). This was the first episode this series where I finally succumbed to admitting the main game was possibly a bit over-complicated; I think it says a lot that the only real ‘ooh!’ moment came about from people simply forgetting one of the rules (namely, that you could still sign/veto without a wild card if you forfeited your chips). Would love to know what would have happened if they had managed to enact the ‘infinite chips’ plan, though.
The deathmatch also felt a bit of a damp squib. ‘Laser chess’ sounded amazing, but then proved a bit of a let down. It seemed fairly clear from the start that it was only going to go one way, and there wasn’t really much they could do to disguise that fact. It also lacked the usual visual slickness they typically do so well.
Fingers crossed for a return to form for next week.
Wondered about the infinite chip plan as well… Junghyun could have deemed red chips worth 0 with his personal bill, but then Jinho could have made them worth 2. I wonder how they decided the order of personal bill usage at the end..
Would have been interesting to see it happen!
If you looked closely on the cards themselves, they mentioned “+1” and “-1” and not “0” and “2”. I presume that means the actual phrasing of the cards’ rules were “[+1/-1] to the value of each chip of the color of your choice” and Bumdidlyumptious simplified it to make it fit inside the text box.
My head is still spinning after that episode.
The Main Match suffered from the curse of Too Many. Between the different currencies, the hidden roles, the wild cards/veto system, the various types of global bills, and a half-dozen other wrinkles that I’ve since forgotten about, a game that promised to be a clever variation of Founding Fathers turned into the most disjointed game of Fluxx ever. How’s that for an allegory for democracy?
The playtesters, who normally do a good job of ensuring a game is fair on the surface, really dropped the ball on this episode. Sangmin’s role was way overpowered, essentially giving him free sign/veto power and 50 points. The setup for Laser Chess was baffling, and despite a beautiful setup ended up being a rather lacklustre affair.
I agree that Sangmin’s role was overpowered and that what Laser Chess lacked in surprising outcome it made up for in beautiful production value.
I particularly enjoy the wide range of opinions on the different episodes; it’s almost as if we’re independent human beings with a wide range of tastes, rather than a homophilous hivemind…
For me, the best episode of the season and well and truly up there with season one. I loved the main match, but I’ve played and loved the obscure 2000 card game Democrazy to which this, ahem, arguably owes something of a debt. (Democrazy is a must-play if and only if you like rule-changing games, and the average rating of 5½/10 is about right if you don’t.) Perhaps I’ll dig my copy it out and bring it down to the Pint some month. I loved it because it did feel like there are plenty of ways that the game could have gone; it’s easy to imagine a game where people concentrated on everyone getting many chips, by playing different global bills, to the point even where the 50-point bonus might not necessarily win.
Laser Chess looked great, though I’m tempted to wonder if there were other possible winning tactics. Would it be better to move your triangle knights into a defensive position early to stop yourself from being blocked, and then work from there?
Bit of a rewind here.
I picked up a copy of the Khet laser chess game (and they were using the same game as their practice boards). One very important rule they didn’t use in the deathmatch: in the board game, the opposing side is never allowed to move into the laser’s column/file, and same side is never allowed to move into the first or last row/rank in the adjacent column. The game devolves into laser blocking without it. The board game also has “scarab” pieces, which are invincible double-mirror pieces with the power to trade places with adjacent single-mirror triangles or square blockers, further limiting the usefulness of blocking strategies.
I figured out the safe password!
CLUE 1: It’s 6 Password
CLUE 2:
X
| |
V
X
How I figured it out?
Step 1:
Change the code into roman number
X II V X -> 102510
That’s the code! 102510
Edit: Clue 1. The password is 6 digit
Sorry Kheve, I couldn’t work out if the episode you were referring to was episode five or the one that went out on Korean TV last night so I’ve deleted the comment.
As a UK based site, we please ask that people refrain from talking about episodes until the English subs have gone up, then it’s their own fault if they read this far. Not a telling off, a polite reminder. Thanks very much!
It sounds like Episode 6 coming in the next few hours, so here’s the spoiler warning:
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And away you go!
From what’s been said already, it looks like this ep is going to be very controversial…
Oh my God, I never thought a show based around parlour games would ever make me feel so utterly sick. Poor Doohee 🙁
We might as well say it – the games for the episode were largely irrelevant – this was the meta episode. I wouldn’t have played Blackout as a Death Match at this stage. But goodness, the drama, THE DRAMA. The last time TV made me feel a bit like that, it was Divided. And the way the editors built it up with Moby was just ingenious. It was so horrible seeing someone so relatively innocent get so utterly played.
I’m intrigued to find out how the Koreans viewed it – Sangmin: evil bastard or evil genius? Who will Jiwon betray next? Team Starcraft or Team Broadcasting? Fascinating.
It looks like next week is this season’s Open Pass. Something to look forward to.
I noticed it seemed light on the games, heavy on the drama as well. They didn’t even show the ending of the deathmatch game (not that we really needed to see a single point proved out). I’m normally the sort that would rather see the games than the meta-drama (WIDM does this really well), but this episode flipped the balance perfectly and I’m still reeling from it.
Two questions I have:
1. Do you think Doohee’s lot would’ve changed if he hadn’t tried bluffing having found his own ID again, or do you think the group saying “we were going to give it back but we wanted to see you play it out” was just a lie to fake sympathy?
2. I’m not quite picking up on the significance of the bit after the rewind. It shows him leaving in amicable spirits (the bit about “being with the people I had always seen on screen”), but the bit about who would admit to lying confused me, and I’m not sure if it’s there as a bit of foreshadowing for later or not.
I’m interested to know what the lead time for this series is – I think they were recording the first one about four weeks in advance, so they were able to watch it back on a delay. I presume something similar here.
Also intrigued to see what got cut, Bump. was suggesting “They had to edit some parts out to lessen the backlash.”
It was definitely a different sort of rewind than in the past. I think they were trying to justify why Doohee believed Jiwon, after all the hubbub about the broadcaster/techies-nee-non-broadcaster conflict. I still admittedly don’t understand his rationale on it.
This game is actually good. The PD made it that you cant take your cards. Meaning its very hard to form a trusting team since you wont know others cards for sure. However the broadcasting alliance is just too strong since they all work for the same company ie TVN.
Obviously it was a lie. If you watch the end of the episode youll see that jiwon shrugs off his off-studio approach to doohee. BTW jiwon is the presidents nephew. So hes a rich upperclass who thinks nothing of using ordinary ppl and then discarding them feigning innocence or in this case drunkeness.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/img_dir/2011/09/14/2011091400830_0.jpg
http://onekpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/eun-ji-won-receives-criticism-for-publicly-supporting-presidential-candidate-park-geun-hye_byien_0.jpg
Basically that part was trying to make it like doohee was at fault for being too naive and let this be a lesson. (yes we know the world is a tough place full of bad guys but trying to justify the bad guys is simply wtf)
The editing that was done was cutting out doohee crying totally unable to hold it in and could not continue the game. Also where he beg everyone to return his id plz.
Lastly korean reaction has been bad. Ppl posted episode 1 where theft and violence was specifically prohibited. Furthermore, apparently the series was downvoted so badly after this episode that it has a rating of 2 on naver. Interesting is the fact that ‘leaks’ came out a day later of the 4 surprise guest (good ol s1 cast we miss) to appear in a later episode (genius is recorded 5+ episodes in advance). Looks like a case of damage control to ensure viewers stick to the series.
End of the day though, the winner of genius will skyrocket in popularity and past transgression forgiven. Such is modern society.
Theft and violence specifically prohibited? I don’t remember that from E1. How curious, since Jinho advanced in Food Chain through physical might, AKA violence. And what’s the point of having a show called “Rule Breaker” if you can’t steal from one another?
I know that in American Survivor, although it is not stated directly to the viewers, one player cannot steal the immunity idol from another. That’s why, e.g. when Taj finds JT’s idol in his bag, she can’t just take it and claim it for her own. I approve of this rule. However, in this context, I personally have no objection to Doohee’s ID being apprehended by his competitors. I agree with others who might call it “foul play” but, again, the subtitle is “Rule breaker.” That should be a hint.
It’s unfortunate that alliances built outside the context of the game based on shared experience (i.e. broadcasters) puts certain players at a disadvantage, but that is true on Survivor All-Star seasons as well, and it is the cost of bringing in players with a strong likelihood to make good TV. A season cast of all civilian strangers would not have the same sort of fraternizing, but might not result in such sophisticated gameplay. Then again, maybe it would.
The mention of the “theft and violence are strictly prohibited” rule was from S1E1. On the other hand, Sangmin *did* steal Jinho’s garnet in that same episode and wasn’t punished for it. I presume it was meant to be like Liar Game, where stealing in-game items is allowed, but not stealing any non-game items like personal possessions, and “violence” is any attempt to physically harm another player, not just any use of brute force.
Difference with S1E1 is that the garnets weren’t necessary to play the games and Jinho actually got his garnet back.
> 1. Do you think Doohee’s lot would have changed…
Trying to claim (falsely) that the situation was somehow Doohee’s own fault totally negated any sense of apology.
After that, I couldn’t see it as anything other than bullying.
The only positive thing about the episode was that Doohee got to show his trust betrayed right through to the end.
I am finding this series tiresome (still; obviously). It’s a shame that they don’t seem to have (or be interested in deploying) any games which could overturn a majority.
However, good decision not to show too much of the games – which were a pointless sideshow again this week.
What is WIDM?
1. I think once the majority alliance determined that eliminating Doohee was the best way to weaken Jinho, it didn’t matter what Doohee did. I think him losing his ID was just the icing on the cake. How extraordinary that he and Jinho planned to switch IDs as a tactic to strengthen their position. Can anyone explain to me how this would have been advantageous, had Doohee not lost his ID? (And could the producers ever have expected that a player would lose/be robbed of his ID?)
2. I agree with you that this re-wind didn’t have the significance of previous instances of this trick of editing. (And three cheers for the way this show is edited. Who says the viewer needs to see everything in chronological order? Often the drama is heightened by withholding information, and the show’s primary job is delivering entertainment.) However, it does make explicit that the contestants fraternize with each other when the camera is off. I appreciate this honesty. I wish Survivor would do the same.
Wie is De Mol? https://www.bothersbar.co.uk/?page_id=7800
Controversial game, to be sure. Like Brig, I enjoyed it but the Doohee events still left a nasty taste in the mouth.
But I was surprised that they didn’t play the second round of Blackout. In theory, the second team can always gain at least one point if everyone is on the same page, but what stops Yooyoung from being betrayed in some clever fashion?
Apparently, they didn’t play the second round because Doohee forfeited. He was too upset about Jiwon’s betrayal and cried, which was one of the scenes that they edited out.
I see. Thanks!
It wasn’t theft IMO- Doohee left his ID unattended. For a key item like that, you keep your eyes on it at all times. He got distracted with the Immortality token search, and it cost him.
I think the Korean audience isn’t that used to shows being so cutthroat though- thus the backlash. Here in the US we’re probably more attuned to a betrayal/backstabbing like this.
Nice swerve with the second fake Immortality token being with the real one though- that move’s been done on Survivor a couple of times, this is the first time there’s been a “legitimate” fake deliberately set up by the producers…
The game was good, though set up wrong- the game of Pit, which this is based on, is supposed to be loud and fast-paced, like this….
http://youtu.be/1NIjmBTS_7M
the fact there was a “safe” way to win and a “risky” way to win with more garnets (but if it failed a trip to the deathmatch in all likelyhood) was a nice touch.
Next week looks fun- this is the type of game that can be a complete wild card (and I agree- this could be an Open, Pass-type game with a couple of tricks)
Somewhere in Korea, there’s a game designer crying. He invents this brilliant game of bluffing with lots of clever strategy which looks great on TV, and it’s ruined by a random piece of deception. “No worries,” the producers say, “We’ll just bring it back later as a Death Match game once the teams are even again.” Sure enough, the teams are chosen again … and another piece of deception ruins the game’s potential.
Brilliant piece of work by the producers including a fake token of immortality, and brilliant work by Sangmin in using it. He’s definitely pulling the strings in a massive way, and unless the other players are able to break away from him he’s going to be able to better his place last season with ease.
Looking forward to next week’s show, which now that the token of immortality business is out of the way should be about the game, and it looks like it could be a great one. Shades of Open Pass if the previews are to be believed.
I’ve heard it said that the Blackout Game simply the Smuggling Game from The Liar Game (manga). Can anyone describe The Smuggling Game? Does anyone have an English translation of The Liar Game that they will lend to me?
It’s similar, but not quite identical to the Contraband Game from Liar Game.
The Contraband Game rules are as follows:
+ Each team gets a briefcase, and each player gets an ATM card which gives them access to their own account on the opposite team’s ATM, each containing 300 million yen at the start.
+ The attacking team sends one player to the ATM with their briefcase. The chosen player can fill the briefcase with up to 100 million yen (in 10,000 yen increments) to attempt to smuggle back.
+ The defending team also sends one player, who meets the attacking team’s player in a room and can then question them on the contents of the briefcase but can’t touch it.
+ The defender has to then call either “Pass” or “Doubt, X” where X is an amount up to 100 million yen.
+ If the defender called “Pass”, the attacker wins any money they put in the briefcase.
+ If the defender called “Doubt” and the briefcase is empty, the defender has to pay the attacker X/2.
+ If the defender called “Doubt” and the briefcase contains more than X, the attacker also wins the money in the briefcase. In the manga, the defender also had to pay the attacker X/2, although this was omitted in the TV drama adaptation.
+ If the defender called “Doubt” and the briefcase contains money but no more than X, the defender wins all the money in the briefcase.
+ At the end of the game, any money left in each team’s ATM (i.e. not withdrawn by the other team) is split evenly amongst the team.
Essentially, the green and red buttons in Blackout are analogous to calling “Pass” and “Doubt, 100 million” respectively in Contraband, while crossing and not crossing the line in Blackout are analogous to filling the briefcase to the brim and smuggling an empty briefcase respectively in Contraband, but there are some other differences between the two.
English translations of the manga comic are easily Googleable, and series 2 of the Liar Game TV adaptation also covers the same material and that’s on Youtube with English subs.
It was all the craziest Survivor episodes packed into one episode. A frantic search for a hidden immunity idol, a fake idol play blowing up badly, and a blindside to beat all blindsides.
Yes, it’s true, the challenges didn’t really matter this time, but it’s not the fault of the games. If Yohwan had sat on his bomb card, the main match would’ve been a lot more interesting strategically, as the big broadcaster alliance would’ve had to beg Yohwan for the last bomb.
I’m a little uncomfortable seeing Doohee get completely taken for a ride like that, but he had his ID stolen by Jiwon, got taken for a ride by Sangmin, called out Jiwon’s ID-theft-accessory Yooyoung, tried to swerve Hongchul, then ended up teammate with him, and went all-in on Jiwon (now on Yooyoung’s team) magically wanting to save him, despite all the rumors of brodcaster v. non-broadcaster alliances. At some point, you just have to read the writing on the wall.
I’m really surprised that the players are so bad at Blackout. Take the free move on a red button! Raise the stakes! Make the other team think twice about burning all their red button presses! It’s easier to build a sequence of successful moves with a single person! You’ll never get to take a boat of scoring moves at once!
Also, apropos of nothing, IT’S JUST A (plastic) STICK!
I appreciate all these comments, especially the Eliza Orlins reference.
The most exciting episode since the 5-5 game.
Interesting to see the posters here expressing sympathy to Doohee. I am sympathetic too: it’s not fun to see someone cry. However, more so here than in Survivor, I side with the “it’s just a game” school of thought. They are not depending on each other for sustenance, warmth, etc. This is a game of building and betraying alliances. I see both sides of it, but my take is: Doohee was outplayed. Moreover, he was careless. The subtitle of this game is “Rule Breaker.” He left his ID (and garnets) unattended. A game error like that will surely lead to failure. No disrespect toward Doohee intended: he is a strong player in every way. However, one wrong move can cost you. The right player went home.
Sangmin has been unbelievably lucky in this season: he drew the Snake in Food Chain and the “50 points if you have no chips” commandment in last week’s game. These are the 2 most advantageous draws. Frankly I think the rule he drew last week was far too imbalanced as it gives him unlimited veto and sign power with no penalty.
But Sangmin’s gameplay this week was not luck. It was the skill and determination to survive that I remember him displaying in S1. (Is Jiwon this season’s Changyeop?) He outplayed his opponents, obtained the token of immortality, and implemented the decoy skillfully. Three cheers for Sangmin.
If nothing else, I’m glad that there’s still 1 female player. As in Survivor, episodes with 7 remaining contestants are always hotly contested and highly dramatic. I’m excited for the next episode. Concerning this episode, I never would have expected a game with an even number of contestants split 5/3 could have produced this much drama.
I love the gag of production including a fake token along with the real one. I’d like to see Survivor do the same.
Doohee as Justine, aka there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Yuck.
Could the broadcasters actually access Doohee’s locker? If they could not, the bomb-holding progamer could stall the game in perpetuity by simply not trading away the card which completed the only possible set.
Far as the immunity goes, of all the things that could have happened, it degenerating into, essentially, slapstick was the last thing I expected. I guess the holder will not be targeted until such time as the losing side is whittled to one.
I suppose it’s good they didn’t focus on the actual games at all, since they were both glorified popularity contests and nothing but. Next week promises an Open, Pass-style game. I expect the tricks to go entirely unnoticed as the broadcaster alliance begins to prepare for episode 9, when they will be left alone and have to split up.
I suppose I’m now Team Junghyun: He’s the only one who hasn’t done anything terribly stupid or unappetizing yet, and I dig the sweaters. I have no idea if he consciously chooses to fly under the radar, or he simply doesn’t grasp much of what’s happening though. It does say a lot about this season that such a passive player has made it this far.
“Could the broadcasters actually access Doohee’s locker?”
There was a scene where Jiwon and Hongchul went to access their lockers. Jiwon submitted a card to the dealer, and from the dealer’s camera angle, it was Doohee’s card. Jiwon therefore did at least view Doohee’s cards, but it was not shown if he swapped cards. Ironically, that heightened the likelihood that he did and it was likely one of the scenes that were edited out to lessen the controversy. It is hardly coincidental that Doohee’s cards were eventually the lousiest of the lot which doomed him into elimination – hardly just a joke or prank that Jiwon claimed.
Yes, we saw it being placed on the table, but we don’t know whether it was accepted. Depends on whether it is considered a key, which would make it acceptable, or as ID verification, which would fail. Nothing came of the switch ID talk earlier on either, and the final hands were not shown, so I guess we can’t know.
Despite Bandage Guy proclamations, the original hands were not shuffled but rather carefully arranged to be as similar and useless as possible. You got a single pair if you had no bomb, and two pairs if you had one. Pretty much any trade would improve the hand, so the scoundrel could only benefit from access if he planned to flush out the immunity by working with Team Starcraft. But individual thinking is not what this game is about.
Honestly, I’m not sure what to think of S2 at this point. I feel the clever games are the main draw of the show, yet both the Main Match and the Death Match in this episode were practically rendered moot by the meta-game drama. And I’m really starting to tire of the broadcaster alliance at this point. They’ve basically been trying to brute-force the games via strength in numbers. Team Jinho does still come up with clever solutions like the infinite chip idea in 7 Commandments, but recently they just seem to keep getting blocked by the broadcaster alliance.
I’m sure there was a clever gambit waiting to be found in this game somewhere, likely involving borrowing another player’s ID card to play using their hand (like the ATM cards in Liar Game’s Contraband Game), especially since there was no real need for them otherwise as the players could easily be identified. Unfortunately, the entire game took a back seat to the aforementioned meta-game drama. There’s just so much wasted potential in these games.
On the other hand, I quite liked the idea of the fake token, and the games themselves are still interesting and provide for some good mental exercises in strategy and game theory. And I agree that next week’s game looks reminiscent of Open Pass, which was my favorite S1 game. I’m hoping that it turns out as great as Open Pass was. S1 did wait until the midpoint to start bringing out the best games, and I’m hoping that proves to be true again this time around.
I also think Sangmin is the biggest threat to the other broadcasters now that he holds the token of immortality. I hope they realize that and start doing something about it, say, by picking Sangmin for the next Death Match regardless of alliance, just to force him to use the token. ‘Cause at this point, if they were to take out Jinho and Yohwan next, they’ll have no choice but to turn on each other, and Sangmin would have a massive advantage with the token.
thats precisely the problem. Its becoming like survivor instead of games. drama instead of wit. bullying instead of strategy.
As for the token, there are rumours flying that episode 7 will be the fated limjinrok alluding to the boxer and yellow rivalries back in the early 2000s. As has been demonstrated, the token can just be given to the death match candidate to choose the pair to go to the deathmatch instead.
I think I never actually felt sick after watching telly. Well I didn’t eat much today, but the entire Dohee thing was horrible. Yes, it was his fault, but after some time, they could have given him his ID back, so that he wasn’t that betrayed. And Jiwon should have done the thing with Yohwan, this would have changed the entire game and with him switching the team, everything would be a bit more balanced (non-broadcasters are more people, but the broadcasters have the immortality idol).
If Dohee hadn’t been betrayed in the end, I would be in a better mood right now as well. Shame on Jiwon, I hope he hasn’t been happy the week after shooting this episode. This is a game, but you don’t have to be that horrible.
However, I hope Hongchul, Sangmin and Jinho will get to the semi-finals, Yooyung being fourth. I don’t like Jiwon and don’t care about Jeounghyeon (I think bumdidly called wrote it a bit differently, but as I can never recall there names, I’m watching the intro write now and copy the names) or Yohwan.
I think Sangmin is really clever, but also quiet mean (though the entire immortality thing was ingenious, thank you, producers). So he’s entertaining but not stupid.
Hongchul is fun, because he is hard to read, but (as seen in this episode) he can be trusted in many moments, playing this game ingeniously!
And Jinho is nice and clever and quiet, I like people like him.
And the girl should be fourth to have a girl for as much time as possible on this show, because they tend to change the mood of the groups gathering. Well the other girls were better in doing so, but anyway…
I like this season, though I’m looking forward to the next season, I hope there will be less drama, it’s enough now!
By the way, this is the first time in 18 episodes we compared it with Survivor, isn’t it? I also hope it’s the last time.
I think we have to consider – what were the IDs FOR? It surely couldn’t have been for the dealers’ own purposes. Therefore, you had to assume that the producers were banking on something happening to these IDs, and indeed it did.
In the same way that the credit cards in the original ‘Liar Game’ smuggling games could be lost, damaged, replaced, stolen etc. then there had to be certain rules here for similar angle shooting. You knew that, at some point, someone was going to use those IDs to see cards that didn’t belong to them.
So, the episode went to plan as far as that was concerned. Indeed, the team of 5 could well have been scuppered if Jiwon had given Doohee’s ID away.
The business with the fake token was a brilliant gag and showed just how many levels ahead of his opponents Sangmin was thinking.
I do agree with Ronald that the producers aren’t doing enough to introduce rules or games that break down factions.
I think I know what one of the tricks with next week’s dice game is going to be, but I won’t spoil.
You know what, I never thought of that…I thought they did that and kept the cards in one area so people wouldn’t just go off and show each others hands and swap secretly.
Yes I thought it was all *brilliant* television and in that sense the producers knew exactly what they were doing. I’m not quite sure it was good for The Genius as a show though. I think front loading the series with so many win-as-a-team games is a bit of a mistake (I don’t think there were any in the first series, was there?) as it rather encourages large alliances, and the show games feel rather better played by a group of individuals who may come together temporarily.
I too wondered why the IDs were necessary, coming to the conclusion that the producers were thinking that players might secretly swap their ID with another player to scupper the plans of those who were keeping track by card counting. I sincerely hope that they weren’t expecting players to resort to theft, as is what actually happened.
Naturally I feel really sorry for Doohee, who must have been understandably very upset by the whole experience. He’s clearly a genuinely nice chap who’s probably too trusting for his own good.
Overall, I think it’s a shame that the tone of the series now seems, well, nasty. Back in series 1, even when the players were playing aggressively against each other, the atmosphere between them was always friendly. Now the rivalries between players seem genuinely unpleasant. I’m not sure I like it.
Also, I’ve disliked Jiwon since he made it clear exactly what he likes to do to pumpkins back in episode 2.
Splendid, splendid television, and the existence and play of the fake immortality token was as high a point as any in season one. This season has really caught fire. If this episode *doesn’t* win “best moment of the year”, other than for the fact that it’s not actually a UK show, then 2014 will have been a spectacular year indeed. The delight of the show is the generosity of ways in which it provides to its players to interact with each other… and the fact that they’re playing together off-screen only makes it even better still.
I’d like to live in a universe where someone were to have put a fake immortality token *back* into the safe, without there being any acknowledgment of the possibility of the existence of fake tokens – then for someone else to find it and play under the misapprehension that their fake token couldn’t be fake.
Boo Jiwon, awwwwww for poor Doohee, and as much as I like the broadcasters rather less than the non-broadcasters, I’d quite like to see the broadcaster alliance prove solid and then dissolve once they were the only five left. (And then I’d like to see the broadcaster alliance SMASHED INTO OBLIVION in season three, to make its defeat all the more spectacular.)
Now how do we go about making our own UK version, even if we only broadcast it as an Amateur Hour production on a video-sharing site?
When I figure out how to make a low-rent US version, I’ll share best practices with you for the UK version.
In all seriousness, I am planning on having a Food Chain party at my house. I’ll let you know how it goes.
I hate jiwon and the girl… poor dohee
Remember the spiel at the beginning of the show? A large part of the joy and brilliance of the show is that it really can facilitate meaningful ugly victories and beautiful defeats. For instance, the little clip revealing how Yohwan managed to find the safe is as valid a victory as figuring it out through winning the hints directly, but a much uglier way IMHO; conversely, the defeats that Doohee arguably brought upon himself are – to me, at least – playing the game delightfully. Certainly, for me, the players who have played the game best are not necesssarily the ones who have played the game most successfully.
What I disliked, for example, was the agreement between Yohwan and Sangmin to share the token on the basis of their shared information finding it.
We can say that Yohwan played this part of the game badly (in fact, Yohwan has often given away information for too little), but I also believe that Sangmin played the game dishonestly – he deliberately lied about what information he had in order to get a one-sided exchange, and furthermore did not uphold the agreement when he was soon able to join the dots.
This is the part of proceedings that I’m particularly not enjoying. This dishonesty is not an ugly victory – it’s just straight up cheating.
The same with Doohee. The act of taking Doohee’s pass was itself fair: it was clearly a designed part of this game. It was a shame that this ‘rule break’ went in favour of the established majority, but that in itself is also part of the game.
My complaint here would be that the majority could have got the same game result without any sense that they were bullying. For the majority to pick on and pick on and pick on* Doohee through the end of the episode was somewhere far beyond ugly.
*by which I mean: no we don’t have your pass/it was your own fault we kept your pass/kick him when he’s down with the fake token/deliberate renege on promised deathmatch support and breach of trust/no opportunity for an equitable deathmatch in any case
I don’t find Yohwan piecing together clues comparable to this – not at all.
But in the sharp end of series 1, people who behaved like Sangmin eventually got their comeuppance. Even Sangmin.
Sangmin ALWAYS makes deals like this. In Scamming Horse Race, he claimed his information was critical to solving the whole thing, when in fact it was not much better or worse than anyone else’s clues. In Food Chain, he said that his peek, knowing who the Lion was, was the most important. He always overstates his hand and convinces others to share information with him. It is a great tactic and completely fair. Anyone who makes an information exchange with Sangmin, knowing how he played the game season 1, should know what they’re in for: buyer beware!
Come to think of it, you make a good point — how is Sangmin getting anyone to trust him any farther than they can throw him at this point? After the events of S1, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sangmin started getting pat-downs from security every time he sets foot in a store.
In a related development, An article was written by a journalist on naver yesterday questioning Jinho being casted for season 2. It claims that the alliance and politics happened because of Jinho (shldnt cast the previous champion). I dont have the specifics of article but the comments were absolutely scathing against it. Google translate even gave me ‘fuck’ a lot of times on all the comments.
The interesting thing was that a few hours later on the same day (after all the comments attacking the article for trying to cast the fault of episode 6 at Jinho) the PD posted an apology for episode 6 and claim full responsibility for the fiasco. Sounds definitely like dmg control for when jinho is eliminated.
it’s not fair that everybody is always trying to eliminated jinho oppa by unfairly scenario throughout season 2, just because he is the winner of the 1st season, why does no body in this game seems brave enough to face him head to head rather than plotting scheme and more scheme, even if they win in the end , i don’t think they winning in the “genius” game, but rather the liar game, i know this game is all about strategy but should lie and deception is used in every situation in a despicable way? I feel the warm of the people that we see in season 1 is decreasing a lot in season 2 and almost down to none, especially after i see episode 6. the plot is still interesting, but i do wish the genius will showed more genius side of the player like in season 1 rather than their conspirator strategy.
I have written an android app to administer the food chain game, would require 5 android phones, one being a server and central game logic machine, and the other 4 being clients and to be held by administrators in each room. The aerver would have to turn on Wifi Hotspot and the rest to connect to the Wifi Hotspot provided by the server. Clients are able to reconnect to the server and obtain the latest game state after disconnection.
It is advised to still keep a manual copy of the game state for backup purposes.. I can’t guarantee that the game will not crash or that the logic will not be flawed. I have not tested it extensively myself as 13 players + 4 admin are not easy to come by.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2j8xtps63t4vjw/AnimalGameClient.apk
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvysveqojf0u6ew/AnimalGameServer.apk
Supposed to reply to Lefty who wanted to host his own food chain game. Damn mobile browser makes it damn hard to reply properly
it’s cool bro, count me in if you guys need additional player.
If I’m ever going to look for playtesters.. would look for you for sure!
Episode seven goes out tomorrow, so to remind our new Korean (and other!) friends: this is a UK based site, please no discussion about it here until the English subtitled episode has gone up, then you’re free to say what you like. Thanks!
It sounds like Episode 7 is incoming so here’s your warning:
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The odds listed when they explain Hongchul’s plan after 21:00 are wrong.
They list 10/36, where you should get 11/36.
If there is nothing else to the game (no weighted dice) then the game is simple probability.
The winner will surely come from the group of people who buy and use any two special dice (cost: 10 garnets), which give an insurmountable advantage over anyone not playing this combination.
The only point of interest at the moment is the prisoner’s dilemma aspect. Since they have 80 garnets total, will the players be individually selfish enough to have 40+ garnets garnished?
So far, it seems they’re willing to spend with abandon.
Update: if the initial schematic of the dice is correct, an odd die and a 345 would give you a perfectly matching die with all sides being 5.
If you could get two of these together then you’d have a guaranteed win. But this requires you to gather odd dice.
If you put your 345 remainder together with the normal die, you get a pretty good die with 3,3,3,4,4,5.
That now gives you a 30/36 chance relatively cheaply.
Or, as they point out, rotate the normal die for a 100% win rate 😉
Okay, now this season has to show some great games. My favourite is gone, I’m quiet sad.
But I’ll begin with the main match. Well that was a great game. I can’t really say much else about it. It was a bit like the open/pass game, but with less skill and more luck by finding how to manipulate the dice first. After everyone had found out about this, it was obvious that Jiwon would lose, as everybody else seems to be a bit brighter than him in my opinion.
Well the death match. I don’t know. I think Indian Hold’em should be played in an episode with more Garnets (e.g. the episode before this one with the expensive dice game), but I liked Indian Poker better anyway. I think this time it was more a question of chance and less a question of skill. Well with 15 chips each I was sure it would end up like this but even with more chips, it didn’t seem that great.
Anyway those two last episode were probably the best time of television in my life, leaving me completely sad after watching the episodes. That’s what you want from television, feeling with the players and being mentally involved. I love this show, despite the fact it became nasty this season (well this episode was a nice one again, could have been a season 1 episode). It’s still great television. (Okay, this time it was easy to guess, who would win Indian Hold’em by the way they cut it, you start to know how they show what kind of scenes, however it’s still better than most of the things I have ever seen.)
Though I criticise the amount of Garnets being wasted this time, I’m glad there was finally a game where Garnets gave you an advantage. I think with more Garnets, Jinho could have been better. By the way, I hope Junghyun will win, he seems so honest and nice. (Those qualities mean he should have been on the first season too, this time round I think he won’t win, unfortunately…)
Ah, that was an interesting episode. I don’t think the Main Match was *quite* as good as Open Pass, but it was certainly excitingly beatable, a puzzle with several stages as well.
Indian Hold ’em. Well it’s difficult not to feel a bit sorry for Jinho really, the game was ruined rather by a lack of garnets all round really.
Sangmin has to win this now, surely.
Really enjoyable episode after all the issues last time- David B thought there was a trick, and there was in the dice being able to break apart…I wondered why they had 1-24 as choices when with the “normal” dice there was no way to get a 1. Think they wasted a lot of garnets at this though- and the previews for next week looks like garnets might also be spent.
I agree with Brig- if there were more chips in the Indian Hold ‘Em game, it probably would have been a little better (though it didn’t lack for excitement with the two ties)…interesting that 1’s can swing for straights, though I suspect 10-1-2 wouldn’t count..
Sangmin certainly is in the drivers seat though- he’s still got the real Immortality token in his pocket (though I wonder how much longer it can be used; I doubt they’d want it still in play at the F3, as it’d make the main game moot. I suspect F4 will be the last chance to use it if not before).
I’m wondering if they was some producer pushing to have the game at all, because with no garnets vs one that’d be Jinho potentially out without having to play. Which would have been both a bit weak but also fairly dramatic.
I don’t think the others would have done that- they respected Jinho too much to pull a stunt like that, especially after last week’s issues.
Mmm, yes. As much as I was clearly rooting for Jinho out of the remaining players, I would have been rather satisfied by that as an ending as a demonstration of player power.
Extremely clever main game today, amongst the most clever that they have had, and beautifully presented. On the downside, this episode felt slow in a way that most of the others have not. Edited down to a UK TV hour, or with a death match that was both long and interesting enough to cut the presentation of the main game down, it would have felt power-packed.
I’d be hugely impressed if someone had foreseen splitting dice as a gimmick in the main game. I was idly wondering whether the faces might be transferable from die to die, or possibly rows of spots might be moved from face to face and die to die, but the splitting dice solution was really elegant.
With hindsight it was bad game design to make the pot roll over with a tie in Indian Hold ‘Em. Better would have been to give both players half the pot each. That way they could have actually carried on playing the game rather than both having to passively accept whatever their fate turned out to be. (The number of chips they played with actually turned out to be irrelevant given that first hand; when Jiwon saw Jinho’s 2 he’d have gone all in regardless of how many chips they were playing with, and since Jinho could see Jiwon’s 2 he’d have called regardless too.)
Overall though, this was much more like a series 1 episode, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Except for the fact that Jinho lost, obviously.
Yes absolutely, which is how ‘proper’ poker tends to work after all.
This clearly shows the downside of going all-in on the first hand when your opponent has the nut low. You’re only ever going to be called when you have the nut low as well, so the first tie did not come as a surprise in the least. Suppose Jinho sees Jiwon had a three rather than a two. Would he have called the initial all-in? Even with only 15 chips, I think that would have been quite an easy fold to make.
I suppose you could try an initial all-in to try to get the opponent off trips or a straight to get the penalty in round one, but you’d be gambling on having a very strong hand yourself for that approach to work – and with no possible straights or trips on board, that clearly wasn’t an option in this instance.
In practice, when both players have the nut low, you would expect an all-in and a call, even if in slightly more betting actions than that, so it wouldn’t have made a difference in this instance.
Questions:
Was Jinho right to call?
Would the result have been different if there were more chips?
Overall, I enjoyed this episode a lot.
Yes.
No.
Sad T_T
Jinho was definitely right to call. He was looking at the worst possible card Jiwon could possibly hold given the community cards. What he did was equivalent to calling an all-in with the nut straight in Texas Hold ’em, only to see his opponent also flip over the same nut straight.
Or to put it in more concrete terms for those of you who play Hold ’em, suppose you were playing heads up holding AT on the dealer button. The flop comes QJT rainbow, giving you bottom pair and a gut-shot straight draw. Two checks later, the turn is a K. Your opponent goes all in. Should you call? The answer is a gigantic “YES” in flashing neon lights. You’d be daft not to call, because you couldn’t possibly be in a better position. You end up sorely disappointed when he flips over another A, but calling was definitely the right move. This was basically the same scenario, only with slightly higher odds of a tie.
As for your second question, considering Jiwon was also looking at the worst possible card Jinho could possibly have, the only thing on his mind should’ve been to bet as much as he can without scaring Jinho into folding. Which in this case was everything. Therefore I think the outcome would’ve been the same no matter how many chips they started out with, as long as they each had an equal number.
I think Jiwon still appeared to be the weaker player though, if only because he was given the choice and elected to go first. Any poker player worth their salt would know that it’s advantageous to go last.
I dunno about part 2, but it was definitely a tactical error to call. He should have been able to work out that he must have had either a 2 or 3 on his head, given the bet of Jiwon(?).
So, given his especially if you thought you were a better game player than your opponent, the sensible play would be to give up the single chip rather than take the whole thing to a crap shoot.
I agree that playing for skill is preferable to a 50% crapshoot.
At 29v31 chips, I would have happily folded.
But, at 14v16 chips, that’s an uncomfortable decision. It’s probably a crapshoot anyway – and here you have at least a 50% shot.
I also agree that playing for skill beats a 50% coin flip any day, but I have to respectfully disagree with you when it comes to Jinho’s decision.
If you’re in Jinho’s seat, you look at Jiwon and see that he’s holding a 2. If you hold a 3, you’d still beat him, and you’d win the entire Death Match in one shot if that were the case.
Now suppose we accept your premise that Jiwon would have gone all in like that if and only if Jinho was holding a 2 or 3. If there’s a 50% chance you’re holding a 2 and a 50% chance you’re holding a 3, by calling, you have a 50% chance of winning the match on the spot and a 50% chance of it going to a 50/50 crapshoot, giving you a 75% overall chance of winning the match. Plus there’s a (small) chance it’s a bluff, which would raise the percentage a little higher. And while I think Jinho’s chances of winning from 14 vs. 16 are greater than 50%, 75% is pushing it. Even if we assume Jiwon would only push all in half the time against a 3, that still comes out to a 2 in 3 shot at winning for Jinho, which I would consider a fair deal if a bit more borderline.
I suppose it all depends on whether or not you think there was any other card besides a 2 that would’ve made Jiwon push all in. I personally think the answer is yes, but if you read Jiwon differently than I did, you’d come to the opposite conclusion with perfectly sound logic.
Looks like the game designers continue to raid their closets for classic board games to repurpose, as next week’s main match looks like the card game No Thanks. (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12942/no-thanks)
Called it! No Thanks removes a few more numbers from the pool, and of course doesn’t have garnets, but otherwise plays the same.
I quite liked this week’s Main Match. It was nearly as amazing as Open Pass, although I can’t help but wonder if we could’ve seen some more interesting solutions had the contestants been given another 15-30 minutes. The outcome was a little disappointing though in that Sangmin now wields way too much power going forward, between the token and his massive garnet lead. (And I still think he partly lucked into the token — had he not gotten lucky with the personal bill he drew in episode 5, I doubt he could’ve won the clue, without which he wouldn’t have figured out the password to the safe.)
I also think Indian Hold ‘Em is an intriguing game, and I have to commend the editors here on turning such a short Death Match into one of the tensest reveals we’ve seen this season. But as a couple others have pointed out, it probably would’ve played out better if they would split the pot on a tie like in regular poker.
In general, I think the Death Matches have been greatly improved in this series. The producers have gotten a bit unlucky with the way the last couple have played out, but they’ve definitely made the best of it. And I’m definitely looking forward to the finale, since if it’s a series of Death Matches again, we’re probably in for some very good battles.
I guess all I have to say is that I love this show and this episode catalyzed in me emotional reactions that are unparalleled in previous episodes. Taking off my game designer hat and viewing only as a TV-enjoyer, I have to categorize this as a big success.
but whyyyy… jin ho oppa get chosen ? i lost reason to keep watching this show T_T”
in restrospect, Eunkyul suddenly seems extremely wise…
Given how above last season’s prize the garnet count had gone, I was not the least bit surprised we got an expensive game. Baiting players by returning winners’ garnets on a single-trick game could have backfired though; this could have easily ended in all players being tied for first. I was amused by the panicked introduction of a time limit to avoid just that when the trick became widely known.
The structure also further increased inequality in garnet counts to the point where keeping garnets gameplay-relevant is near-impossible. They should have seen that coming before it came around in the deathmatch, smacked them in the face and forced uncharasteristic amicability between players. Production should have let Jinho DQ immediately than force us through the face-saving charade. If production cares, games where garnet gains are orthogonal or antithetical to winning could fix that, though again they haven’t given themselves time to go about it discreetly.
If this was our Open, Pass puzzle game of the season, I wanted more than one trick to it – oh, well. Dice bits from screen following Jinho’s discovery, should you want to play along:
Vanilla
4
3310
2311
3
Even
6
5126
5126
8
Odd
5
0552
1461
7
Small special
3
0440
5003
5
Big special
6
4004
1540
6
This version of Indian Poker is both better and worse than its predecessor. It does reward card counting more when you’re late into the pack, but playing the odds and playing entirely randomly aren’t all that different early on. And by necessity, you get more of the stupid early hands than the measured later ones. I also agree that the pot rollover was just moronic.
I wanted to smack the deathmatch winner for several episodes now, and his whining that his dice were worse than the original got to me, only partly because it was untrue (14/36 beats 11/36 last time I checked). Needless to say, I wanted the deathmatch to break the other way, though I have to grudgingly respect both his tolerance for the circus act and his self-awareness of his limitations.
Interesting (to me at least) facts!
With only your standard dice (that is, one regular and one odd or one even) you can actually have a 83.3% chance of rolling one of your two chosen numbers.
You can, as illustrated on the show, arrange your regular die to show only 3s and 4s. With the odd die, there’s a configuration that gives you 566667 and with the even die it’s 677778. So with the odd die you can choose to bet on 9 and 10, giving you a 5/6 chance to win on any given throw.
Also interestingly, on all three dice in question, you need only turn one half 180 degrees to get these combinations.
The minimum garnet spend to get a 100% win rate is, of course, only 5. Make your 333444 die from the regular die, and happen to pick the special die that joins with your other die for the guaranteed die.
If you have one of each of the special dice, you can actually make two dice that have 344556 on their sides. While this is the best combination from these, it still only gives you a 50% win rate, by picking 9 and either 8 or 10. But with two unmodified special dice you can achieve a 20/36 win rate so you probably shouldn’t do this.
With a low-special die and a regular die you can actually make a 334455 die! The remaining halves allow you to make a 233355 die, giving you a different way to get a 50% win rate (choose 6 or 7 and 8)
If you managed to miss getting 3s and 4s on your regular die, with the remainder from a 666666 die you can make a 556668 die, giving you a different way to get a 5/6 win rate. There’s no similar equivalent for the leftovers of a 555555 die, though!
Thanks for the transcriptions, I was hoping to transcribe them and figure out my own solutions but didn’t have the time to do so yet.
Anyway, to create a 100% chance of landing on one of two numbers, you must have one die have the same number on all 6 faces, and one that only has up to two possibilities.
There are exactly two combination that give you a guaranteed die, as Lewis already posted. But as for dice with two different numbers, the only one I could find was rotating the vanilla die 180 degrees. Are there any others?
As a side note, I think this is the first Main Match where it was feasible for everyone to be tied at first place. I wonder how they would’ve handled that?
Having been through all other combinations, the regular die 333444 is the only way to get a die showing only 2 numbers. The best after that is a toss up between the 566667/677778 dice, and a few combinations which show xyyzzz.
But having the two guaranteed dice (yes those are the only two combinations for that) allows for a much more badass moment of throwing one of your chips away like Sangmin!
wonder if he/she’s subbing this week…
Episode eight up already:
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Away you go.
Okay, another one of my favourites is gone now.
Well I really liked the main match, it was really working. I think they could have auctioned off the hidden number in the end by asking for garnets, this would have changed quiet a lot in my opinion.
The death match remains one of my favourite games on this show, I didn’t the strategy played, but it was played the way I would have played as well I think. With losing Hongchul there will be less laughter and it will become even more serious, so I still prefer the first season.
I’m interestes to see how our new version of “Food Chain” will work next week and how the difference will be. I guess the boss can’t starve by firing not enough people. So it will be interesting.
It’s the Maths Game episode! Really good concept, I quite like the game mechanic where you pay to pass and increase a pot to make less attractive things more attractive. I’ve seen that sort of thing in a few board games of late.
Intriguing strategy for Same Picture Hunt. Fifty percent of the time you can win without having to do anything at all. Not much fun to watch though.
Episode eight felt flat to me. I know, some good ones, some bad ones, but this was a downbeat after all the amazing scenes of recent episodes.
A large part of the appeal of the show is the originality of the ideas involved. Knowing that the main match of this episode was taken pretty directly from a classic German card game, without even particular adaptation, didn’t help; having played the game in question, years ago in the dim and distant past, really didn’t help. The worst thing is that the game works much better with fewer than six players; with six, it feels a bit… random. On the other hand, I imagine they would have scheduled this game for six players if and only if they had specific better games in mind for five, four and three players. (I did like the way that this game redistributed the garnets in such an organic fashion, too, and that might be a part of the motivation for placing it here. There would have been comedy if our garnet leader had passed with a garnet every single time to finish on a score of +9 – and, while it would have been possible for the other players to work together to stop such an approach from working, I think Sangmin [?] would have succeeded in the approach if they had tried.)
Death match: meh, frankly. I prefer games not to be repeated; in general, the second season is doing much better than the first one for avoiding the pitfall. At least this playing of it displayed a different approach for the game to take, though not one that perhaps displayed the game in its best light. If there is to be another version of the game, perhaps this might give good reason to start players rather closer to the goal and further from the unhappy ending.
I’m not too happy about the elimination, either, though this always has been a show where going under the radar is an important tactic.
Agreed that it’s a shame a big character has been lost, but it was also the first real time I think I’ve seen ex-newsreader guy employ strategy off his own back, which was interesting.
Does it say something about our collective opinion of Junghyun that I too was expecting that, at some point during the Death Match, we’d be treated to a flashback of Sangmin explaining this strategy to Junghyun?
The wardrobe dept. of this show is pretty daring, at least by western standards. Jiwon and the emperor’s jackets were rather eye-catching. One more thing that, sadly, wouldn’t translate I suppose.
They played No Thanks pretty straight, although the garnet substitution added a fun wrinkle. I happened to have played the game yesterday with people new to the game, and it seems new players are always too eager to pick up numbers. Genius players seemed to have figured this out about halfway through the main game, which I suppose is good enough for this crowd. I quite enjoyed the pace; I was surprised when the game ended so fast.
I was complaining last episode about how limiting the garnet inequality was, and how difficult it would be to fix. That didn’t look difficult at all, did it?
There are a couple of homebrew rules I employ which could work for TV purposes: a) deal all players 5 cubes: they each remove one as a hole, and return the rest for use in the main game. This would give them partial information, which would allow for the usual social game. b) The smallest of the high numbers of the longest straights is scored as a positive bonus. Shooting-the-moon is a surefire way to inject tension into anything. Admittedly, explaining minimaxing exceptions is tricky, but it’s not like they shy away from complexity here.
The conveyor belt of doom doesn’t look particularly exciting, but it sure played that way. The strategy revelation, the mistakes by both players as tension got to them, the final tense reveals: all in all I’ve had a great time.
I’m starting to respect Sangmin. While he may have lucked into his position of dominance, he sure is putting in the effort needed to keep it.
What was that jazzy number that played under some interviews?
I’ve played homemade No Thanks once (using part of a deck of Rack-O cards and a bunch of soda can tabs), and a lot more against computer players (there’s a good program if you do a google search for “The Tricky Squirrel”, though I don’t know if it’s available outside of a larger package of games anymore). I completely agree with being surprised how they bought cards so quickly. Especially with that -3 at the start, I’m surprised the first player just picked it up, it’d usually get passed for at least one chip before it gets snatched up, because since it can only connect on one side and even doing so doesn’t improve your score any (except by collected chips), it’s just a cheap penalty. I was irritated by how they played it, but then again, I’ve had more experience with the game.
Probably not what you’re referring to, but I enjoyed the appearance of Sherlock music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXx6sk6YqZ0
This episode annoyed me particularly because, instead of working together as they should have, everyone just sort of did their own thing which ended up being the stupidest possible strategy (except Yooyoung, who was actually smart in keeping kind of out of the way). If people had actually worked together, they could possibly have gotten Sangmin out of first in the situation near the end and made him lose his immortality token.
I also think everyone placed too much importance on keeping chips, and spent way too many garnets. Yes this redistributed the garnets so now someone has 20 to rival Sangmin’s new total of 25, but we saw far too many rounds with only garnets and maybe 1 or 2 chips in the pot. I’m also kind of curious what would have happened if anyone had managed to get a positive score out of this, since the “lowest negative score” was specified to be the winner.
As it is right now, Sangmin is going to at least the last 3. If Junghyun comes last in either of the next two matches, he’ll never pick his buddy Sangmin for the death match. And if he doesn’t, Sangmin uses his immortality token. I get the feeling if he has to use the immortality token next time, he’ll sacrifice off Junghyun to get one round further.
And also, goodbye Gangnam Style elevator guy. 🙁
I’m not sure if Sangmin can use his immortality token during the last 4 match, since there would be 2 (i assume) tokens of life and 2 deathmatch opponents.
If the next game is his last game in which he can use his immortality token, then he is only guaranteed passage to the last 4.
Sangmin would be better off coming last on purpose in the next game so he can pick who goes to the death match before it becomes completely individual.
He could use it at F4 if only the winner got a life token- and if he won, pass his Immortality token to someone else and then the other two go to the deathmatch automatically.
Survivor’s rule on hidden immunity idols is that F5 is the last time they can be played, so I suspect this will be the last week Sagmin can use it- if he wins the main game and gets a life token, he almost certainly will give the immortality token to Junghyun if he’s in danger. The issue is how many life tokens will be available in the main game- since it’s a spinoff of Food Chain with some NPC’s, it’ll be interesting to see how it works…